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non-polish - Search for Description of Polish light signals
FSP - 28-02-2015, 11:47
: Temat postu: Search for Description of Polish light signals
Dear Friends,
at first please apologize my request in German, because there are a lot of technical terms, who can confuse more then help. In the other hand, my English is :-/ :-? :oops: Sorry!

My request in German (some words in English):

Ich habe mir das Signalset V5 komplett herunter geladen.
Die Signalbegriffe der Formsignale (signal aspects of shape signals) verstehe ich. Sie sind in Deutschland gleich.

Aber ich möchte gerne die mehrbegriffigen polnischen Lichtsignale (multiple-aspect light signals) verstehen und auf einer Anlage zum Einsatz bringen.

Frage:
Gibt es eine Übersicht mit Bildern, die mir zeigt, welche Licht-Signale für welche Situation eingesetzt werden? Ich wäre sehr dankbar, wenn es die Beschreibung dazu in Englisch oder Deutsch geben würde. Ich freue mich auch über eine polnische Beschreibung, die ich mit einer relativ guten Internetseite (leo.org) übersetzen kann.

Ich bin auch dankbar für eine Gegenüberstellung der verschiedenen Formsignale und Lichtsignale.

Vielen Dank für Eure Geduld.
koos - 16-08-2015, 20:27
:
Hey there,

I'm also looking for a solution. I cannot get the signalling system to work.

For example see the screenshot below. You can see a train approaching a junction / switch. The first signal shows 'full speed' at signal, and the next signal shows 'drive 40 km/h'. But the first signal has to inform the driver that the next signal may be passed with 40 km/h. But how do I do this? I don't want my train to drive 40 km/h for a long time.



I've searched for a manual for the v5 signalling system, but cannot find one. I hope you can help me out.

Thank you in advance,

Koos (from Holland)
RBach - 16-08-2015, 21:23
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Hm, i think its time to translate my manual wroten in polish to english language :-)

In this situation 1st semaphore cannot inform about signal on second one, because this type can't do this :-)
UAZ - 16-08-2015, 21:31
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RBach, this signal has orange light, so it can inform about ,,40km/h at next signal, now max speed''. Last time there was a discussion about this situation at MaSzyna's forum, signal Green/Red/Orange can show this in few places on PLK's tracks ;-)
RBach - 16-08-2015, 21:45
:
UAZ napisa³/a:
RBach, this signal has orange light, so it can inform about ,,40km/h at next signal, now max speed''.


No way. In this type, orange light is "lower" light. Only for "40km/h" (or 100km/h with green bar) aspect. For signalling infos about signals on next, you need "upper" orange light, but here we have only green. And what happens, when we have "40km/h here and 40km/h on next"? Two lights in one lantern? No way :-)
UAZ - 16-08-2015, 22:15
:
Well, there are typicaly Polish ,,Local conditions'', but not only local ;-) Signal only with lower orange light can show ,,next 40km/h, now full speed" or ,,next stop, now full speed", but ,,next 40km/h, now 40km/h" is not. Hmm, better I give link to oryginal discussion: http://eu07.pl/forum/index.php/topic,26694.0.html

Instruction E1 says ,,one flashing orange light - next 40km/h, now full speed" and ,,one orange light - next stop, now full speed". He says, however, that the orange is at the top or the bottom? No ;-)
RBach - 16-08-2015, 22:37
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UAZ, we talk about TRAINZ and my signals, not about real signaling system. And in this situation this semaphore cannot inform about next signal. End, amen, finito :-)
koos - 19-08-2015, 07:40
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Hi RBach,

I would be very grateful if you translated the manual to English. I'm a big fan of Polish railways. I'm from Holland myself. Every year I go on interrail, and Poland is always my no. 1 country to visit.

The PKP is doing great work with their modernization projects. But on the other hand, old lines (with alot of wooden sleepers and unwelded rails) also has its charms.

Would you be so kind to give me a short introduction in the Polish signals? I've mafe a beaitiful rpute so far, all I need to do is place the signals. ;-)

Best regards,

Koos
Aikozann - 20-08-2015, 01:04
:
koos napisa³/a:
(...) a short introduction in the Polish signals? I've mafe a beaitiful rpute so far, all I need to do is place the signals. ;-)


But do you need description of both Polish light signals "in the real world" and manual for Polish signalling system for Trainz or only the second one of those?

If you don't know how to interpret Polish light signal indications, there is simple schematic illustration at Polish Wikipedia which shows in easy way how to interpret these signal indications without need to remember 17 basic signal indications on light railway signals in Poland (I've translated this picture to English):
http://trainzimage.pl/image/mj8
- as you can see, you have to 'divide' the signal into upper part and bottom part. The bottom part of the signal shows speed limit for passing the signal while upper part of the signal shows speed limit indicated by the next signal. There are four possible upper-part indications and four possible bottom-part indications, which gives, with red-light 'Stop' signal indication, 17 possible combinations for signal indications. If you remember this schematic diagram, it is also easy to interpret distant signals and repeating signals (I don't know if this term is appropriate, but I don't also know better term for such type of Polish light railway signals) - since they are not indepentent railway signals and they only show speed limit indicated by signal to which they are assigned, distant signals have not got 'bottom part' and repeating signals have only "eternal" white light as their 'bottom part', but the interpretation of indication at 'upper' part is the same (the only difference is "the signal to which this distant/repeating signal is assigned" instead of "the next signal"). There are only additional signal indications beyond those described above - replacement signal indication (flashing white light, allowing for passing 'Stop' signal or turned-off), "maneuvers forbidden" signal indication (blue light), "maneuvers allowed" signal indications and two signal indications informing if rail-crossing security system works properly. So there is whole Polish light signal-indication system in few sentences :P Of course there are additional rules concerning choice of appropriate type and placing of the railway signals. And remember that light railway signals with striped red-white poles are controlled by human in signal box and used at stations and before junctions while railway signals with white poles are fully automatic and are used at thoroughfare railroad tracks between stations and junctions.

This short description along with the attached schematic diagram should also help you to understand your problem - you have used the signal without orange lamp in 'upper part' of the signal. The "full set of signal lamps" in Poland consists of five lamps - 'upper' green, 'upper' orange, red (in the middle), 'lower' orange and bottom milky white. And this set allows, with use of appropriate green and/or orange light bar(s), for displaying whole set of signal indications. Signals with less than five lamps cannot display all signal indications, and what can be displayed by particular signal is determined by the set of lamps - not only by presence of absence of the particular colour of the lamp, but also by the assignment of the particular lamp to 'upper part' or 'bottom part' of the signal. Four-lamp signals may be bereft of green lamp (this type of signal is used if the next signal/signals cannot display signal indications allowing for passing the signal at max speed or 100 km/h, or if the next signal always displays 'Stop' signal), bereft of 'upper' orange lamp (this type of signal is used as the last signal, usually at station, before entrance into railroad track without fully automatic signalling system; this signal cannot inform about signal indication at next signal) or bereft of 'lower' orange lamp (this type of signal is used if the set/combination of junctions behind this signal does not require limiting of the speed; this type of signal cannot limit the speed of the train and only informs about the signal indication at the next signal; this type of signal is never equipped with light bar); four-lamp signals without white lamp are exceedingly rare. Three-lamp signals may contain green+red+white lamp set (this type of signal is used as the last signal, usually at station, before entrance into railroad track without fully automatic signalling system if the set/combination of junctions behind this signal does not require limiting of the speed; this type of signal cannot limit the speed of the train and cannot inform about signal indication at next signal - it's only "stop&drive switch"; this type of signal is never equipped with light bar), orange+red+white lamp set (very rare type of signal, usually 'orange+red+orange+white' four-lamp signals are used instead of this type of signal) or green+red+orange lamp set (type of signal used primarily as fully automatic signal at railroad tracks between stations and junctions - in this case signal of this type has got white pole). There are also two-lamp signals with red+white lamp set (often used, white lamp allows for displaying replacement signal indication and/or "maneuvers allowed" signal indication; this type of signal is never equipped with light bar), red+green light set (rare type of signal, works only as "stop&drive switch", never equipped with light bar) and red+orange lamp set (extremely rare, I have never seen such signal but this combination of lamps is theoretically possible), and one-red-lamp "eternal Stop" signals (used at the end of the railroad track).

I hope that this short overnight-written description will help you to understand some aspects of Polish railroad signalling system :)

Best regards.
Aikozann - 20-08-2015, 07:29
:
Moreover, If you would like to learn which type of Polish light railway signal should be used in particular situation, you can analyze simple simple station scheme, as an example there is a scheme of Raci±¿ station:
http://semaforek.kolej.or...5/5a/Raciaz.png
Signal signatures are intuitive and there is no need to explain them I think. Signals are denoted with capital letters, distant signals are denoted with "To" combined with letter denotation of the signal to which this distant signal is assigned, repeating signals are denoted with "Sp" combined with letter denotation of the signal to which this distant signal is assigned and Roman numeral denoting the number of repeating signal assigned to particular signal (max. III), maneuver signals are denoted with "Tm" combined with number of maneuver signal. There is also additional superscript notation of signals: "1" in superscript means that the signal can display signal indication allowing for passing the signal at maximal speed, "2" in superscript means that the signal can display signal indication allowing for passing the signal at 40 km/h, "3" in superscript means that the signal can display signal indication allowing for passing the signal at 100 km/h, "4" in superscript means that the signal can display signal indication allowing for passing the signal at 60 km/h (of course signal has to be equipped with appropriate light bar/bars to display signal indication allowing for passing the signal at 60 km/h - orange - or 100 km/h - green) and "m" in superscript means that the signal can display "maneuvers allowed" signal indication. Circle with horizontal line indicates red lamp, circle with vertical line indicates green lamp, circle with diagonal line indicates orange lamp, empty circle indicates white lamp and circle with two crossed lines indicates blue lamp. Please note which type of signals are used as signals before entrance to the station etc.

There are more Polish stations schemes at semaforek.kolej.org.pl